|   INTERVIEW 
              TRANSCRIPT - Claude E. Boyd 
               
            
               
                |    Dr. 
                    Claude E. Boyd is a professor in the Department of Fisheries 
                    and Allied Aquacultures at Auburn University, Alabama. 
                     | 
               
             
              
              Now that aquaculture is growing so fast, what are the current trends 
              in shrimp aquaculture? 
            As you study 
              the oceans' fisheries, it's somewhat reached an equilibrium and 
              the demand is still increasing. And demand can only be met through 
              aquaculture. There is no other way. There's no good way that anybody 
              knows of right now to increase productivity of the ocean. There's 
              talk about fertilizing the ocean and all this, but nobody knows 
              definitely what'll work.  
            So at least 
              as far as what we know now, aquaculture is the only way of increasing 
              the fisheries' production. And there are even projections that aquaculture 
              can't really produce enough to keep up with the demand if the world 
              population increase continues at the same rate.  
            From a business 
              standpoint that's quite good because if there is a demand for the 
              product and somewhat of a shortage, so you should be able to get 
              a decent price for what you produce. In shrimp farming, it's reached 
              a stage now where about 25% of the shrimp placed on the world market 
              are produced in ponds.  
              
              What kind of changes is the industry going through? 
            The industry 
              is new, so to speak. There's been some shrimp farming for a long 
              time, but it was quite extensive and they would just build some 
              ponds and basically pump the water in, and the sea would come in 
              with it. But then beginning about 20 years ago, they began do shrimp 
              farming on a more organized schedule.  
            They started 
              building to produce small shrimp in the hatcheries, they built the 
              ponds in a standard construction practices, and began to stock them 
              and use feed to increase the production above what you can get by 
              the use of fertilizers or just the natural productivity of the water. 
               
            And then of 
              course they incorporated mechanical aeration into it to provide 
              even greater production with the feed than it can just be achieved 
              with the natural sources of oxygen. And they developed some better 
              technology for managing the whole industry - not only the ponds, 
              but better processing and better feed manufacturing.  
            The industry 
              has become much more sophisticated but I think the big steps were 
              made in developing the feeds that allowed much more production, 
              and then the use of aeration. But of course aeration isn't used 
              all over the world. It's used mainly in Southeast Asia in the shrimp 
              farming. And a little bit in Australia and US for their shrimp farming. 
              Generally in Latin America they are not at that stage, but they 
              are at the feeding stage.  
              
              Everyone we've spoken to has said how the industry is aware of the 
              problems and how there is a lot of work going on research and implementation 
              on correcting those problems. 
            About 4 or 5 
              years ago this became popular in the publicity standpoint of shrimp 
              farming, but the industry had already started improving their practices 
              before the environmental issues were raised. And the main reason 
              for this had to do with diseases, because shrimp apparently do not 
              have a good an immune system as fish and other vertebrates. And 
              so they are susceptible to some of these epidemic diseases, particularly 
              some viral diseases.  
            And beginning 
              around in the mid-80's there were some fairly severe epidemics in 
              different countries. The first one that was really hit big with 
              this was Taiwan back in the late '80s. And then there have been 
              a number of other disease problems since that time. 
            The farmers 
              realized pretty quickly that one way of reducing these diseases 
              was trying to get animals that weren't diseased to start with - 
              good post-larvae - for stocking the ponds. And they began ways of 
              getting better animals for stocking. And then another thing that 
              they quickly discovered is that in shrimp farming you're discharging 
              water out into the coastal area, and of course you're using water 
              from the coastal area so anything that you release from your farm 
              it could come back to you or it could go to somebody else.  
            So if there 
              are either pathogens or carriers of the pathogens in that water 
              and you bring it into your pond you can obviously cause yourself 
              a problem with diseases. This is when they started reducing this 
              water exchange to try to prevent the disease. And it was one of 
              the things that they found was effective.  
            In fact, people 
              found out pretty quickly that the farms that had the most problems 
              with the diseases were the ones that had shared intake and discharge 
              canals of their own farm or were sharing these with other farms. 
               
            One of the ways 
              of treating waste, like municipal waste, is you can put it into 
              a sewage oxidation pond and hold it there. A lot of cities have 
              more rapid ways of doing this but for small communities, a lot of 
              times they use those sewage oxidation ponds where they just put 
              the water in and have a certain detention time and the natural processes 
              purify the water.  
            A pond is a 
              lot like that. If you put the water in there, it's purified by the 
              natural processes. So by reducing the water exchange you've retained 
              the water in the pond longer and there's more opportunity for these 
              natural processes to improve the quality of the water before it's 
              discharged. The other thing that was quickly noticed was that the 
              animals that are stressed are much more susceptible to diseases 
              than those that are not stressed. So they found that by maintaining 
              better water quality in the ponds they had less disease.  
            So this brought 
              about some moderation in the stocking rate because some farmers 
              had gone to quite high stocking rates to try to get as much production 
              as they could. And as you put more feed in, you get more waste. 
              You can't convert that feed 100% to shrimp, so the waste would increase. 
              And so by moderating these stocking rates and trying to maintain 
              better water quality, they had shrimp that was less stressed, so 
              there was less problems with the disease.  
            I think you 
              can see this in several countries. If you could go back and look 
              at what they were doing ten years ago and what they're doing today, 
              you'll find that they're using better feed. It's more stable and 
              doesn't break up into the water as quickly, so the shrimp has more 
              opportunity to eat it.  
            They're probably 
              stocking at somewhat lower rate than they once were. They're using 
              the feed in a more conservative manner to try to insure that it 
              all gets into the shrimp, and they reduced the water exchange. And 
              they generally improved all their management practices.  
            And not only 
              does this benefit the environment but it also comes back to benefit 
              the farmer, and improves his efficiency. And, of course, sometimes 
              implementing these better practices costs a little bit of money 
              up front, but in the long run it probably improves the profits and 
              it certainly makes the prospects for sustainability much better. 
               
              
              We've also heard a little about cutting down on content of fishmeal 
              and making it more vegetarian-based. Is there an advantage there 
              in elimination of waste product? 
            Well, not only 
              in eliminating the waste but also in reducing the cost of fishmeal; 
              it's expensive. The best example I can give you some is catfish 
              farming. I'm not saying the exact same thing can happen in shrimp 
              farming, but I anticipate something similar to this will happen. 
              I'm not a nutritionist. As I've said I'm more in the water and salt 
              quality business, but I think the numbers that I'm giving you are 
              fairly accurate.  
            The channel 
              catfish farming business in the US back in 1972 or 3, the feed was 
              costing around $365 a ton and it contained around 42% protein and 
              I think it probably had over 10% fish meal in it. And over the years, 
              through research they've reduced the fishmeal content of that feed 
              by supplementing it primarily with soybean meal. And now the feed 
              is 28-30% protein and I don't think it has over 1© - 2% fishmeal 
              in it. And I'm not sure today what it costs, but somewhere in the 
              neighborhood of $260 or 70 a ton, which is actually less than what 
              it cost.  
            So that's an 
              example of what can be done, and I'm sure as they learn more about 
              shrimp nutrition they will be able to reduce the fishmeal and fish 
              oil component of it and replace it with vegetable proteins. And 
              this will reduce, not only the protein content of it and conserve 
              fish meal, which there is a finite supply of, it'll also reduce 
              the cost of the feed.  
              
              Can you speak about the use of antibiotics?  
            I guess we can 
              say it's an antibiotic issue but it's generally taken up as a chemical 
              issue - the chemicals that are used in aquaculture. And in our culture 
              we use quite a lot of chemicals and chemicals are definitely a good 
              thing. I don't think anyone can deny that chemicals are not good. 
              I'm not saying we can do everything with chemicals, but there are 
              proper use of chemicals and there are improper use of chemicals. 
               
            And I think 
              in aquaculture, and in shrimp farming in particular, people have 
              taken this chemical issue and antibiotics issue and just say it's 
              bad. Well, that's not really true. What's probably better is to 
              approach it as such is done in the US in aquaculture. And here we 
              have certain antibiotics and drugs that can be used for disease 
              treatment that are approved for years.  
            And not only 
              the compounds are approved but the way it's used is approved, and 
              they specify how much you can treat with and the withdrawal times 
              and so forth. So I think what really needs to be done in the shrimp 
              farming is not that anybody needs to ban the use of chemicals - 
              antibiotics and drugs - what they need to do is to come up with 
              some approved lists and approved legal management practices.  
            There's a seafood 
              inspection program in place now for stuff imported into the US. 
              Europe has a system and I'm sure Japan has one, too, and they examine 
              the product coming in for residues of certain compounds and if you've 
              got the residues, you've got a problem.  
            So it's to the 
              shrimp farms' advantage to follow the rules of these compounds. 
              The main thing is you don't want to use these compounds just as 
              a general treatment. Just like taking an antibiotic everyday to 
              protect your health, I don't think it'd be very good in the long 
              run because bacteria will become resistant to the antibiotics and 
              then they won't be very useful.  
            And there's 
              a danger there if you use too many of them. Eventually they may 
              lose effectiveness. Or they could have some adverse effects on the 
              environment outside of the pond if they are released before they 
              degrade in the pond. So there needs to be restrictions on the uses 
              of these materials, but people should be allowed to use them where 
              they really need, I think. And this information is generally known. 
              There's quite a lot of information on the use of antibiotics in 
              aquaculture.  
              
              The protocol with antibiotics and with water exchange, or any of 
              these techniques that are being developed or are already being implemented, 
              for example in Honduras - how will this information get across to 
              these developing countries where the bulk of aquaculture operations 
              are happening? 
             In Latin America, 
              an awful lot of shrimp farm operators are university trained, and 
              a quite a number of them were trained in the US or Europe. There's 
              been a lot of use of consultants in Latin America. They bring in 
              consultants that know about different aquaculture practices and 
              adapt in that manner.  
            Of course now, 
              the governments in some of those countries are developing some research 
              programs and extension programs and so forth. But shrimp farming 
              in general, the people have just gone out and adapted things from 
              other kinds of aquaculture or brought in people that had the know-how. 
               
            As I mentioned 
              to you earlier, shrimp farming is not particularly high-take. It 
              involves certain practices such as: you to have a way to put water 
              in it and drain water out; you have to be able to regulate the natural 
              productivity of the pond by possibly adjusting the pH through the 
              use of limestone; or in some cases they may use some fertilizer 
              or nutrients to stimulate the desirable plants in the system; the 
              use of feed; and where they have a high enough stocking and feeding 
              rate, the use of mechanical aeration.  
            The construction 
              techniques of building ponds are pretty well known. We've built 
              a lot of ponds over the years and building a shrimp pond is not 
              much different from building any other kind of pond. The technology 
              for building an embankment or putting in a water control gate, that's 
              nothing new that has to be developed specifically for shrimp farming. 
              An engineer knows how to do that. So that information is available. 
               
            Feed. People 
              know how to make pelleted feed. You may have to adjust it a bit 
              for the shrimp, so it's the right composition. And of course they're 
              learning more about the nutrient requirements of shrimp and the 
              feed is changing. And they get better material for binding the pellets 
              together so that it doesn't break down too quickly in the water, 
              and this is one of the problems with shrimp. The fish would tend 
              to grab the pellet and gulp the whole thing, but shrimp's a nibbler 
              so the feed deteriorates quickly and the shrimp doesn't get it all 
              and what's left over pollutes the water.  
            But when you 
              get into something like aeration, aeration was originally developed 
              for wastewater treatment industry but modifications of those aerators 
              are used in the aquaculture industry. So this technology is all 
              available. And much of it can just be purchased if you know water. 
               
            But the shrimp 
              farmers in general have adapted things from other areas agriculture. 
              And a lot of their knowledge has simply come from other areas of 
              aquaculture, because there's a lot of pond aquaculture in the world 
              now. There's a lot of research done on them and some of it has been 
              developed specifically for shrimp farming. 
             But there's 
              been a lot of adoption and modification to make it work, but basically, 
              whether you're growing channel catfish in Mississippi or shrimp 
              in Thailand, the basic procedures you go through are about the same. 
              There are some differences in how you handle the animal and how 
              you market the differences in composition and feed and so forth, 
              but the basic principals are all the same.  
              
              There's been a movement in Thailand to move the ponds inland. Do 
              you see that as a viable direction? 
            That's a practice, 
              which I don't think is extremely extensive. I don't know the consequences 
              of this. There's some problems with it. You can bring in saltwater 
              and possibly cause some salinization problems, but I guess what 
              saves you is that it's too extensive to bring all that saltwater 
              in there. They're just going to bring in the minimum amount.  
            Usually when 
              people think about growing shrimp, they think about the ocean water, 
              but the shrimp in ponds can do quite well in water that's only 2:1000 
              salinity. Ocean water is about 35:1000 salinity. But if you've got 
              one, or two, or three or four parts to a thousandth salinity, they 
              can do quite well. So they're not growing them in 35:1000 salinity 
              water. That would be far too expensive. So it's not quite as bad 
              as it sounds. 
             I don't really 
              know about the sustainability of this kind of industry in the long 
              run, if it's always going to be profitable to have that water in. 
              It's an expensive thing. I haven't heard of any problems resulting 
              from it, but I think it could be done if you took all of the proper 
              precautions - prevent the downward seepage of saltwater into this 
              fresh water aquifer and don't release the water.  
            And of course 
              you're not going to be using water exchange here because that means 
              it'd be letting the salt out and it would be that much more expensive 
              to let it in. And so just by the expense of the salt that they're 
              using provides some sort of environmental protection, for sure. 
              I don't anticipate that ever being a mainstream shrimp production 
              procedure, but it has been done.  
              
              I didn't know to what degree this is happening, but someone else 
              was saying that yes, they're trucking all the ponds inland. 
            It can be done. 
              I just don't know how they'll do in the long run. They might work 
              out the technology and be able to do this on a bigger scale, but 
              right now it's a very small amount of shrimp that they've produced 
              that way. I don't think that some people might be worried this might 
              result in a lot of salinization of inland water supplies.  
              
              What is the practical solution for discharging effluence, whether 
              it be on the coast or inland? 
            Well, just pumping 
              the water through the pond doesn't really cause any particular problem. 
              The problems result from the nutrients and the solids that maybe 
              suspended in the water. The nutrients come from the feed and they're 
              either dissolved or contained in the plankton that's in the water, 
              or you can have some suspended salt particles in the water.  
            But the main 
              thing that should be done is they need to reduce the water exchange 
              as much as possible. And when you do release water, it'll be diluted 
              and taken away from the immediate vicinity, and the ecosystem can 
              assimilate, as long as you don't overburden the assimilation capacity 
              of the ecosystem.  
            A lot of the 
              sediment that comes from aquaculture comes from erosion during the 
              time they're draining the ponds or from erosion in canals and so 
              forth. So just by taking the proper precautions in the construction 
              of canals and the discharge of water they can do a lot to reduce 
              the solids loads. And a lot of the phosphorous is associated with 
              the solids, so if you reduce the solids you'll take much of the 
              phosphorous out of the water. 
            You can also 
              put in a sediment basin and move solids at the end of the process 
              before your final discharge. In some cases it may not be necessary, 
              but if you do have effluent that still has quite a bit of solids 
              in it, a sediment pond can be quite effective. In Thailand they 
              have a shrimp farm and one of the requirements of the law they passed 
              there is that they have to devote a certain percentage of the farm 
              to a sedimentation pond.  
              
              What percentage do you think they actually do? 
            It was either 
              10 or 15% of the pond area that had to be devoted to sedimentation. 
              
              What's your sense of how many farms actually have sediment ponds? 
            This law applies 
              to the farms above about 50 rai - around 6 or 7 hectares, I believe. 
              The farms bigger than that all have them, I think. And awful lot 
              of smaller farms have those sediment ponds. 
              
              A Thai professor in Songkhla said if everyone puts in those sediment 
              ponds, that's going to raise their price of shrimp, yet the world 
              wants inexpensive shrimp. The world has to decide which it prefers. 
            It shouldn't 
              be that expensive to make sediment ponds. I'm not trying to say 
              all the farms in Thailand have sediment ponds, but a lot of them 
              do, especially the bigger ones. And by bigger, I mean a few hectares. 
              
              How about the problem with wild-caught larvae, which I understand 
              is more of a problem in Latin America? I heard that most of the 
              post-larvae used in Southeast Asia comes from hatcheries? 
            They have to 
              have a larva to stock in their pond. But this is one place where 
              the shrimp industry is really going to change in the future. Because 
              right now they just catch the brood stock from the sea and they 
              bring them in and they spawn them in the hatchery and they produce 
              the hatchery of post larvae. Or the other thing they do is, they 
              go out and they get the wild-caught larvae, which then spawn. 
            This is a problem 
              in the industry because it depends on the wild stock for stocking 
              aquaculture ponds. So the shrimp industry will, in the future, produce 
              its own brood stock. And they won't even be dependent on the sea 
              for their brood stock at some point.  
            But right now 
              most of the brood stocks do come from the sea and in certain parts 
              of the world they tend to use those wild-caught post-larvae because 
              some of the farmers think they may be stronger than the ones in 
              the hatcheries. 
            The concern 
              comes in when they use some kind of small-mesh seine and they catch 
              tremendous numbers of post-larvae, and there's some bycatch of fish 
              when they do it. And some people think they're taking tremendous 
              amounts of small shrimp from coastal waters to put in these ponds 
              and that's obviously going to have an adverse impact on the natural 
              shrimp fishery.  
            But when you 
              really think about it, these shrimp produce just huge numbers of 
              young and very few of them survive to be adults anyway; most of 
              them die off. So even though there are a lot of animals being caught, 
              they're probably not as dramatic a thing on the ecosystem as people 
              think. It's more of a perceived problem.  
            But the shrimp 
              industry needs to go towards the hatchery-produced post-larvae and 
              the farm-produced brood stock eventually. That's the direction they're 
              going anyway. So I think this is going to end up a non-issue in 
              a few years.  
            As to what damage 
              using the wild-caught larvae has done, I don't think anybody can 
              give you real convincing evidence that it has caused a problem. 
              Likewise it'd be difficult to show that it has not caused a problem. 
              But it is an issue that I think you'll see become less and less 
              important to the farmer. They'll rely more on the hatchery for post-larvae 
              in the future because it's a more controllable system.  
              
              What is the difference between brood stock and larvae? 
            The brood stock 
              would be the shrimp that they get the eggs from. Then they take 
              the eggs and produce the small post-larvae. And then they take the 
              post-larvae into the pond and grow them up into the larger shrimp 
              that's sold in the market. 
              
              What criteria do you think are the important ones for the Global 
              Aquaculture Alliance? 
            Anything that's 
              going to survive and prosper, society is going to have to go through 
              some changes, and the shrimp farming industry is definitely changing. 
              They're coming up with better procedures and newer procedures and 
              new technology.  
            But not only 
              has organizations like the Food and Agriculture organizations of 
              the United Nations developed Codes of Conduct for aquaculture, but 
              some of the national shrimp farmers' associations are developing 
              these practices. The shrimp industry got together and some groups 
              and members got together and formed the Global Aquaculture Alliance, 
              which is dedicated towards improving shrimp farming practices.  
            And so they're 
              coming up with these practices. It's popular to call them best management 
              practices, but sometimes they may not be the best; they may be improved 
              over time, so you ought to call them good management practices, 
              or better management practices.  
            Codes of Practice 
              - they're going to have the farmers try to adopt them and I think 
              they will. I know some people may say, well, you know they can say 
              they're using these practices and they have to be regulated from 
              some outside agency. But what you have to understand is that in 
              a lot of these countries where shrimp are farmed, there's not a 
              real good system of pollution control and so forth in place. They 
              may have some regulations, but not a lot.  
            In the United 
              States, Codes of Practice have limited value because we have state 
              and federal agencies that regulate water pollution and other aspects 
              of the environment. So I think what these Codes of Practice do is 
              provide some kind of protection until these governments actually 
              develop a system of regulating various industries in their own country. 
               
              
              Since a lot of these shrimp producing countries do not have regulations 
              yet, or they don't have the resources to enforce them, would being 
              able to command higher prices for a high-quality certified product 
              be a positive reinforcement for the farmers to adopt these best 
              management practices? 
            I think there's 
              some possibility to this. But there does have to be some way to 
              ensure that the shrimp sold under this certification were actually 
              produced using whatever methods that were specified in the certification 
              system.  
            I think it's 
              going to be a long time before we get to this. I think what's probably 
              more likely is people will make labels and these labels will say 
              that the shrimp were being produced under these codes of practice 
              and then you more or less have to take their word for it. But I 
              think sometime in the future certification is definitely something 
              we will probably see. We're already seeing this with wood products 
              and certain other products.  
            On the other 
              hand, I feel like the only way you can ever solve a problem is to 
              solve it kind of at the grassroots level, by teaching these farmers 
              how to do things better. Not just aquaculture but in anything, people 
              doing the work have to be taught to do it better and learn the reasons 
              for doing it better. And until you do that I don't think any kind 
              of system or regulation is going to work because you come up with 
              some kind of regulatory system, people are always going to find 
              a way around it if they don't think it's necessary. So I guess I 
              have more trust in people than a lot of the environmental activists. 
               
            And again, they'll 
              say, you see what's happening to the world. And I'd like to say 
              again that our big problem is not that people are going out and 
              destroying the environment through negligence and not caring and 
              whatever. It has more to do with the fact that there are too many 
              people and maybe they just don't understand what they're doing all 
              the time. So I think regulations are good and all that, but I think 
              you need to understand why you are obeying the regulations or you're 
              not going to really do it properly.  
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